The Lost Boys.
Andrew Tate, the boys who love him, how we can help them - and why this isn't going away.
Welcome to my new Substack – starting this with little fanfare – but it will be invaluable and of real interest to anyone with an interest in future generations, young people, the future, and all the things that flow from these: tech, sex, pornography, prejudice, internet cult figures, masculinity, femininity, identity, eating and eating disorders, bullying, education, brands, what is going to happen in the coming decade - and much more. The difference about my work and writing, is it all research and interview based – I’m visiting hundreds of schools, charities, hospitals, festivals, parties, events this year – where I will talk with young people and really listen to what they have to say. And I’ll try to make sense of what’s going on, decode all the strange language and trends, and give a fair account of what young people are up to and why. I have lots of experience in this. I’ve interviewed over 10,000 members of Gen Z and Gen A, had a bestselling (and the first!) book on Gen Z and worked with everyone from some of the biggest brands and companies in the world, to governments, the UN, ECB and many schools (check me out here and reach out if you’d like to work with me or say hello: https://chloecombi.net
You can get a sense of my interview style and rapport with young people if you listen to my hit podcast, Apple #1 podcast, You Don’t Know Me, here: https://audioboom.com/channels/5036169
There were many things I wanted to write about for my Substack maiden voyage, but the most obvious one seemed to be to address one of the biggest stories of the moment – the rise (and possible, though don’t count on it) fall of Andrew Tate, and how a failed Big Brother contestant managed to cast such a powerful spell over so many boys and young men across the globe? Naturally, this story has been covered ad infinitum, but for the most part not very well, because they were either too pearl-clutching (“this shows that every boy is a closet misogynist” Actually it doesn’t – loads of boys think he’s a complete knob), too in thrall of Tate’s “genius” and showing an inability to touch on the ludicrous Ali-G-esque aspect to him (clue: lots and lots of boys just find him very, very funny) and most gallingly, completely failing to connect his popularity to a larger pattern of our fascination with people who are all Id, base impulses and willingness to say the things so many ‘civilised’ people think and don’t say.
Tate is essentially the Gen Z alternative (he’s not Gen Z being 36 years old, but his base is mostly Gen Z) to Tucker Carlson, Donald Trump and Jordan Peterson, who have all given (mostly) men permission to say fuck political correctness, fuck feminism, fuck equality, fuck fairness but also wrap the fuck-offs in packages of either glossy news programmes, political rallies or books with serious titles (without these things, they would just be men ranting on street corners or the internet.) Similarly, Tate’s shiny packaging is fast cars he may or may not own, a fortune that may or may not be real, a vaguely homoerotic sounding Hustler’s University and most powerfully, the trojan horse of men and boys’ mental health and well-being. Just as Trump managed to convince the poor and disenfranchised of America that he, a billionaire, bewigged hustler from Manhattan really cared about them and saw them, Tate has convinced millions of boys and young men that he alone sees them, cares for them and can fix them – all for the low, low rate of 49 bucks a month. And the last part is undoubtedly both the most fascinating, sad and powerful thing about him, because although it’s complete bullshit – you don’t see Tate donating his proceeds to male mental health organisations, but you do see all the cars it allegedly buys him – but he has tapped into something very real and something we should have taken much more seriously all along: young male sadness, loneliness, and anger.
Clint (17): I do know there are aspects to Andrew Tate that are ridiculous, and I don’t agree with everything he says about girls and dating – I don’t hate girls or want to control my girlfriend. But he is such a refreshing voice and the community around him can be comforting. You do get a lot of extreme points of view in the chat, but a lot of it, if you really look at it, is quite grief-stricken. It’s a lot of boys and men who feel like they’ve been told for too long how shitty, violent and predatory they are, so some absorption of that message was pretty inevitable. What did they expect? When I was in the L6 (Lower Sixth), a speaker came to our school, she’s a very popular writer, and told us – and I’m not kidding – that we were all potential rapists, even if we didn’t know it yet. So many of us were so angry. How is that acceptable as a message that a lot of girls will really listen to and believe, but not some of the stuff Andrew Tate says?
Lyle 18: I think Andrew Tate is a complete fraud. I mean, he’s a sex-trafficker, and everyone who likes him was vaguely aware of his dodgy past before he got nicked, because he told us in videos. He literally shared in great detail his camming business with tips on how to do it yourself. But no one can deny he’s not clever with the mental health and self-respect stuff, because the mates I have who like him, kind of use that as an excuse – he's all about men’s wellbeing – and the few that really believe all the really dark stuff he comes out with – found that the gateway drug. It’s not a great analogy, but if you like, the ‘respect yourself’ and ‘do exercise’ which are good messages, is the weed smoking and the really misogynistic stuff, like girls being responsible for rape and smacking your girl around and controlling her is the heavier Class A stuff that loads of boys including some of my mates are getting to. It’s not a line that everyone reaches, but lots are, and to stay with the addiction metaphor, getting deeper and deeper into. I’m properly worried about a couple of my mates. I hope his arrest ends this.
Clint’s assertion that Andrew Tate’s message is no more extreme than the feminism that seeks to paint men as predators and rapists is debatable, but one you hear so often from boys, it’s a point that must be considered seriously. There is a widely held belief amongst many boys – and a belief massively reinforced by the Tates, Tuckers and Trumps of the world – that feminism is a kind of conspiracy against them that seeks to besmirch them, cut off their balls and make them all wear ‘This is What a Feminist Looks Like’ t-shirt. So, it’s not really a wonder that so many boys are running to Tate who they believe can save them from the evils of feminism. But this is where we need to be more thoughtful than disparaging. The saviour language being applied to Tate (“he stands up for men”, “he saved me from Blue-Pill thinking”, “he helped me stop being a cuck and a victim” “he saved me from believing feminism can be good for men”) is very similar to the language that was used to describe Trump by his followers, and I would argue like Trumpism or MAGA, what is flowing around Tate, his followers, and many would-be Tates waiting in the wings should he fall, is closer to a movement or to put more explicitly, a kind of modern, social media-driven cult. Lyle (a non-believer) describes in eloquent detail the process of indoctrination, the quite-clever justification for the extremism, and the mechanisms of addiction to the movement that’s happening to a lot (though not all) boys who follow Tate. And this is where we get both the dialogue and the response to Tate horribly wrong.
The most convincing reinforcement or ‘proof’ of a movement’s power is not the number or enthusiasm of the followers, but the fury and fear of its detractors. To try and tell disciples their chosen leader is ‘bad’ or ‘wrong’ does a few things, and none of them good. Firstly, it strengthens the ‘them’ against ‘us’ principles of a movement which is catnip for the sad, lonely and disenfranchised who feel nourished by a movement that values them as the ‘chosen ones’ – it is no coincidence that Tate has pinched the Red Pill/Blue Pill idea of The Matrix and fancies himself as Morpheus – a kind of enlightened leader of Red-Pillers. But in Tate’s case he encourages what he calls the ‘haters’ and tells the (mostly) boys, this is a sign ‘it’s working’ – even if your ‘haters’ are your Mum and Dad, who can’t work out why their son has fallen so headily for a man who poses a lot in his pants and shines his head.
So, a much, much better question for the followers of Tate’s movement, is ‘what now – now you are following him, what’s he doing for you?’ Try it. It’s an interesting question and one I’ve asked a lot with very interesting results. Tate convinces boys (for the low, low price of 49 bucks a month) that he will make them fitter, famous, richer and more appealing to girls. And this is where it begins to unravel, especially if you frame the question like that.
If Tate was only encouraging boys to take care of their bodies – great – no harm, no foul if it didn’t lead to, as it so often does, to the darker stuff. But the rich, famous and more appealing to girls is an utter grift, and when you push it, the smoke and mirrors are apparent. The get-rich schemes he suggests might ‘work’ (though a Romanian prison suggests otherwise) for him, but what’s the average seventeen-year-old boy going to do – approach a girl in AS Geography and ask her to be his bitch and cam-girl? I think not. His hijacking of algorithms on social media was pretty nifty, but nothing an internet-savvy teenager can’t work out for his or herself – and many do, very effectively. What Tate is ‘teaching’ is nothing revolutionary. And as for the increased popularity with girls, well, let’s ask them:
Sonia (17): Andrew Tate is providing a brilliant service to girls. Any boy we know who likes him, defends him, raises his points in class or takes him seriously, is an instant red-flag and goes on our ‘don’t date, don’t invite to parties, don’t end up in an empty classroom with.’ There was a guy I really liked last year who started the classic ‘I don’t agree with everything he says, but…’ line and I instantly went off him.
Ebony (17): I was seeing a guy last summer who started with ‘you’re my property’, ‘I’ll tell you who you can see and go out with’ that he was clearly getting from his Andrew Tate bullshit. Instant block in every way
Hailie (15): Andrew Tate makes me sad because he’s creating so much division and meanness. Lat year, we were all such good friends with the boys, but so many of them have gotten into Andrew Tate, it’s made so many of them horrible and saying horrible things. We just avoid the ones who like him completely. Luckily, lots of boys don’t like him or are seeing through him.
So, if the riches, fame and girls aren’t exactly materialising, this leaves a movement of (mostly) men and boys who can be angry and say what they want and speak the ‘truth’ about the evils of feminism or girls or society or pronouns or whatever else ails them, but again I ask the question ‘what now?’ Where does the anger and the bantz and the truthing get you or go? It looks very much like a group of men and boys being angry in an angry bubble, and the truth about anger is it’s just a sadder form of fear. Anger isn’t action or making changes or positivity or strength – all things that might actually help you to change and improve your life – it’s just impotent fury that achieves nothing.
Tate has tapped into something – that is undeniable – but rather like Trump, his resonance with young men says something much more interesting about them than him. Their need for a strong male role model, their need to belong, their need for permission to say or think politically incorrect things, their need for a lightning rod to channel all their resentments and fears, that is what we should be focussing on rather than a guy who makes a living cosplaying as Vin Diesel in the Fast and the Furious.
And I ask again, ‘what now?’ because even when Andrew Tate recedes – whether for legal reasons and because internet cult figures always do – if the reasons for his popularity remain, and we show no signs of fixing them, will mean the next one will be more toxic, more extreme, more appealing. Because the thing about Tate and people like him – the thing that I think is most attractive about him to lads, which absolutely fits into the cultlike mentality is he makes things seem so very easy. In a scary job market and economy, the hustle is easy. Can’t get girls to fancy you – just take them as your property. Your life isn’t going as well as you’d like – it’s something or someone else’s fault. Feeling alone or scared – for the low, low price of 49 bucks a month, I can take away your fears.
James (16): I was really happy as a kid and then probably from a combination of adolescence, watching a lot of porn, spending all my time either gaming or in chat rooms, and then the pandemic hitting and all those things maxing to the extreme, I just suddenly got really angry, which I think was anxiety and depression and just feeling pissed off and paranoid. I thought everyone was having an amazing time, except me, but for some reason, especially girls. I was convinced they were all laughing at me and all boys. One of my mates started talking about Andrew Tate on Discord, and how he’d broken the Matrix and helped him see the light and all of that. Initially, same as, I just liked the fitness and the mental strength aspect, but what he says, started to make a lot of sense to me and made sense of the world. I’m not gonna lie, he’s changed my life for the better, and I’m not ashamed to admit that.
James’ story is like so many boys I speak to and he describes very well the reasons he fell for Tate – the sadness, the isolation, the dislocation and the need for answers – and we all need to ask ‘what now?’ because this isn’t going away (even if Andrew Tate is.)
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